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	<title>Scott Kveton &#187; dataportability</title>
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		<title>I&#8217;m for the Open Web</title>
		<link>http://kveton.com/blog/2008/06/06/im-for-the-open-web/</link>
		<comments>http://kveton.com/blog/2008/06/06/im-for-the-open-web/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>kveton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Data Portability]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Open Web]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[OpenID]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dataportability]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[kveton]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[OAuth]]></category>

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<a href="http://www.vodkapundit.com/public_html/?page=46" title="viagra in bangkok">viagra in bangkok</a></span>I&#8217;ve been struggling with the relevance of Data Portability for the last few months now.  The ideas around Data Portability have been a work-in-progress for several years; the technologies and communities building them are mature in every way.  In this post, I want to try to explain my reasons for leaving the Data [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been struggling with the relevance of <a href="http://dataportability.org">Data Portability</a> for the last few months now.  The ideas around Data Portability have been a work-in-progress for several years; the technologies and communities building them are mature in every way.  In this post, I want to try to explain my reasons for leaving the Data Portability project and why I think the Open Web is significantly more important.</p>
<p>I know when I was first introduced to Data Portability I was skeptical but when the ensuing media circus flooded the blogosphere, I had no choice but to <a href="http://blog.strands.com/2008/01/23/why-mystrands-is-joining-the-data-portability-workgroup/">jump right in</a>.  Many of the people developing the open protocols co-opted by the Data Portability project have hinted (both publicly and privately) at leaving.  Others have just <a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/11/26/data-portability-and-thinking-ahead-to-2008/">outright</a> <a href="http://www.hueniverse.com/hueniverse/2008/05/the-big-pink-el.html">left</a>. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with Data Portability as a whole as much as I do with its leader, Chris Saad.  The lack of clarity of vision, <a href="http://chrissaad.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/violent-opposition/">the delusions of grandeur</a> and <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/08/myspace-embraces-data-portability-partners-with-yahoo-ebay-and-twitter/">blatant pandering</a> are so frustrating to someone such as myself that has worked so hard to actually <bold>do</bold> something in this space.  I know I&#8217;m not alone here, but this week, I reached a tipping point.</p>
<p>First of all, a little history.</p>
<p>David Recordon and I made a point of inviting Chris Saad out to the <a href="http://sgfoocamp08.pbwiki.com/FrontPage">Social Graph FooCamp</a> in February 2008 as Data Portability was really starting to take the main stage.  On the last day, at the eleventh hour, Saad led <a href="http://flickr.com/photos/kveton/2241696560/in/set-72157603849998661/">a talk</a> on Data Portability that got rather heated.  Chris Messina, Joseph Smarr, Jeremy Keith, Tantek and many, many others were there saying the same thing: we&#8217;re already having these discussions, why do we have to do it now at dataportability.org?  We left Sebastopol that afternoon hoping to have Chris Saad really carry on the conversation with the wider audience he had brought to the table.  Instead, we continued to hear more calls of &#8220;come join the conversation on dataportability.org&#8221; coupled with empty press releases instead of real leadership.</p>
<p>At the <a href="http://datasharingsummit.com/dsswiki/index.php?title=Main_Page">Data Sharing Workshop</a> where Marc Canter put it all into <a href="http://valleywag.com/381686/and-then-i-went-to-the-island-of-empty-chairs-wish-bear-said-to-grumpy-bear">context</a> for me (and then he <a href="http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2008/06/june-5th-blogging-08">prodded</a> me again yesterday).  Data Portability is about <a href="http://www.apml.org/">APML</a> riding along with the rest of the well-known and established Open Web protocols.</p>
<p>Marc and I have had our differences in the past, but on this we both agree.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always been in the Chris Messina <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/dataportabilityactionsteering/msg/3a8b31cae01dc294">Don&#8217;t-stab-babies-in-the-face</a> camp with respect to data portability.  Lower-case data portability embodies many of the same ideals around the Open Web.  Many small open building blocks, loosely joined helping to enable data exchange and control for users.  How can you not like that?!</p>
<p>My reasons are particularly personal for not wanting to participate in Data Portability anymore.  I&#8217;ve spent close to the last two years chairing the OpenID Foundation board.  I&#8217;ve seen a fantastic community coalesce out of nothing to create a technology that has been widely adopted.  When Data Portability pulled OpenID into its technology stack, I was actually really excited.  However, with the expectations set by the media around Data Portability and the lack of follow-through has the potential to negatively impact all of the hard work by these existing communities have done.</p>
<p>My tipping point about this came earlier this week when <a href="http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&#038;STORY=/www/story/06-03-2008/0004825226&#038;EDATE=">Jive Software</a> joined the Data Portability group.  I love the folks at Jive, have known them for years and always wish them well.  However, its a bummer that even folks from my hometown can be misled by this DP media hoopla.  When I read Sam Lawrence <a href="http://gobigalways.com/enterprise-data-portability-needs-a-reputation-standard/">say</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
In the meantime, we’re interested in working with the Data Portability group to help contribute to these standards as well as new ones as well. Hopefully, the organization is now at a point in its evolution to proceed with formal and elected leadership, a standards body, voting process and the rest of the stuff that makes organizations successful.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I realized even Jive had been fooled by the hype around Data Portability.  DP is not about <a href="http://wiki.dataportability.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=1114398">creating new technology</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Some things that The DataPortability Project is not:</p>
<ul>
<li>We are not a group focused on creating new technologies. DataPortability intends to work with tools that already exist today.</li>
<li>The group is primarily focused on consumer facing technologies and not those aimed at corporate internal use.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p>Chris was quoted in Jive&#8217;s press release.  He knew about this announcement.  And yet, as he did with the &#8220;Data Availability&#8221; <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/08/myspace-embraces-data-portability-partners-with-yahoo-ebay-and-twitter/">release</a> that MySpace did, he opted to &#8220;take-all-comers&#8221; instead of stay focused on the <a href="http://wiki.dataportability.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=1114398">specific mission</a> of the Data Portabililty project.</p>
<p>More importantly, its not where the discussions about these protocols are happening.  They are already happening on <a href="http://openid.net">openid.net</a>, <a href="http://oauth.net">oauth.net</a>, <a href="http://microformats.org">microformats.org</a> and many, many others.  I&#8217;m excited to see people <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/dataportability-public/browse_thread/thread/749c9ac165d188b4">talking about OpenID</a> within the Data Portability project, but I feel like they are actually taking away from the existing communities <bold>and</bold> misleading the new members of the Data Portability community.</p>
<p>I put the blame for this type of messaging and lack of clarity squarely on the back of Chris Saad.  I&#8217;m actually really amazed at the quality of people that have joined the Data Portability community.  They are well-spoken, understand the meaning of collaborative discussion and are very passionate about the project itself.  But Chris hasn&#8217;t shown the ability to stick to the goals and mission of his organization and community.  In fact, the <bold>DP community</bold> does a better job of staying on point than Chris does.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.davidrecordon.com">David Recordon</a> is on the right track; <a href="http://daveman692.livejournal.com/335417.html">how do you support the Open Web</a>?  To me, the Open Web is what this is all about.  The Open Web is the key to the <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/30/friendfeed-the-centralized-me-and-data-portability/">centralized me</a> or <a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/category/citizen-centric-web/">citizen-centric web</a> we hear so many people talking about.  Without interoperable formats and protocols, all of this stuff will be a pipe dream.</p>
<p>Instead of just complaining, I&#8217;m going to continue focusing my efforts where I think I can make the most impact.  I&#8217;m going to continue working hard to promote and enable the OpenID community, I&#8217;m going to continue to encourage and engage in discussions with projects like OAuth, microformats, <a href="http://diso-project.org">DiSo</a> and others and I encourage everyone to join me in doing the same.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://kveton.com/blog/2008/06/06/im-for-the-open-web/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>5</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>SXSW-bound?: Let&#8217;s talk</title>
		<link>http://kveton.com/blog/2008/03/04/sxsw-bound-lets-talk/</link>
		<comments>http://kveton.com/blog/2008/03/04/sxsw-bound-lets-talk/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 23:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>kveton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Data Portability]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Identity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[OpenID]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[SXSW2008]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dataportability]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sxswi]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kveton.com/blog/2008/03/04/sxsw-bound-lets-talk/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the most lively discussions at SG FooCamp was the Data Portability talk.  Chris Saad was the host and a bevy of folks (Chris Messina, daveman692, Eran Hammer-Lahav, jsmarr, Tantek, Adactio, John Panzer, Eran Sandler and many others) were there talking about how to turn all of the Data Portability energy and excitement [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most lively discussions at <a href="">SG FooCamp</a> was the Data Portability talk.  Chris Saad was the host and a bevy of folks (<a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog">Chris Messina</a>, <a href="http://www.davidrecordon.com">daveman692</a>, <a href="http://hueniverse.com">Eran Hammer-Lahav</a>, <a href="http://josephsmarr.com/">jsmarr</a>, <a href="http://tantek.com">Tantek</a>, <a href="http://adactio.com">Adactio</a>, <a href="http://www.johnpanzer.com/">John Panzer</a>, <a href="http://eran.sandler.co.il/">Eran Sandler</a> and <a href="http://flickr.com/photos/kveton/2241696560/in/set-72157603849998661/">many others</a>) were there talking about how to turn all of the Data Portability energy and excitement into something tangible.  One of the ideas was for Chris Saad to turn <a href="http://dataportability.org">DataPortability.org</a> into the place for the discussion about how all of these technologies can work together and hopefully relate the conversations happening in each of the communities.</p>
<p>I know Chris has done a few of these videos already:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://seesmic.com/v/Co8lFpDaMz">http://seesmic.com/v/Co8lFpDaMz</a></li>
<li><a href="http://seesmic.com/v/fN4utUYa6C">http://seesmic.com/v/fN4utUYa6C</a></li>
<li><a href="http://seesmic.com/v/laUHx3ie9j">http://seesmic.com/v/laUHx3ie9j</a></li>
<li><a href="http://seesmic.com/v/qcdpwCUX4l">http://seesmic.com/v/qcdpwCUX4l</a></li>
<li><a href="http://seesmic.com/v/sb8qjEF57p">http://seesmic.com/v/sb8qjEF57p</a></li>
<li><a href="http://seesmic.com/v/Dk76sdlGMk">http://seesmic.com/v/Dk76sdlGMk</a></li>
</ul>
<p>This is a great start and I want to do my part.  I like the ideas, momentum and people that have come around the Data Portability Workgroup, so this weekend at <a href="">SXSW 2008</a> I&#8217;m going to actually <strong>do</strong> something instead of just listening quietly on the mailing lists &#8230; :-)</p>
<p>Myself (look for me in some sort of Portland/Bacon themed t-shirt) and fellow Vidoop partner-in-crime <a href="http://luke.myvidoop.com">Luke Sontag</a> will be <strike>prowling</strike> walking the expo floor, taking in sessions, attending pre/post events, raiding <a href="http://barcamp.org/BarCampAustinIII">BarCamp Austin III</a> and everywhere in between seeking out <strong>your</strong> thoughts on Data Portability, the Open Web, portable social networking, <a href="http://diso-project.org">DiSo</a>, whatever.  These topics mean a lot of things to a lot of people and most importantly to those of us in each of our communities (<a href="http://openid.net">OpenID</a>, <a href="http://oauth.net">OAuth</a>, <a href="http://microformats.org">microformats</a>, etc).  The goal is to simply document thoughts from people in the space (and not just the &#8220;leaders&#8221; either) and make it accessible to everyone wanting to participate in the conversation.  Hopefully this will increase awareness and help people come together more effectively on the problems at hand.</p>
<p>A few of the questions I&#8217;d like to pose:</p>
<ul>
<li>What has the impact of the Open Web been for you, your work or the applications that you use?</li>
<li>What does Data Portability mean for the work that you&#8217;re doing today?  For the applications that you use?</li>
<li>Is portable/distributed social networking/DiSo possible and what are some steps to move it in the right direction today?  Where should we be by 2009?</li>
<li>Every web site seems to have a life streaming component now, does it matter?  Is it relevant?  What are your thoughts on life/action streaming?</li>
<li>OpenID and OAuth both have the concept of an end-point that does interesting things for the user.  What are some possibilities for this end-point with relation to the work you&#8217;re doing?  The applications you&#8217;re using?</li>
<li>Google announced the beta of Google Health and its inevitable that more and more of our data will be ending up on-line.  Is this a good thing?  How can you better manage and protect this data?</li>
</ul>
<p>These will be short, bite-sized interviews (hopefully under 5 minutes or so) and we&#8217;ll get them on-line as quickly as our crack <a href="http://twitter.com/rachelpalooza">video team</a> can get them up.  I&#8217;ve already lined up a few really great people to chat with so far and am looking for more.  Would you like to weigh in on the questions above?  Do you have other questions you&#8217;d like to ask?  Comment below and I&#8217;ll either work the question in or find you at SXSW.  See you all in Austin!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://kveton.com/blog/2008/03/04/sxsw-bound-lets-talk/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>5</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>What can/should you do with an OpenID end-point?</title>
		<link>http://kveton.com/blog/2008/01/13/what-canshould-you-do-with-an-openid-end-point/</link>
		<comments>http://kveton.com/blog/2008/01/13/what-canshould-you-do-with-an-openid-end-point/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 03:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>kveton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Identity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[OAuth]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[OpenID]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[OpenIDDevCamp]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dataportability]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kveton.com/blog/2008/01/13/what-canshould-you-do-with-an-openid-end-point/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of my favorite discussions of day 1 at the OpenIDDevCamp was around what you could do with an OpenID end-point.  About 15 people showed up to whiteboard and talk first at high-level and then drilling down into the details.
Now, a bunch of folks have been talking about this idea of moving to URL&#8217;s [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favorite discussions of day 1 at the <a href="http://barcamp.org/OpenIDDevCamp">OpenIDDevCamp</a> was around what you could do with an OpenID end-point.  About 15 people showed up to whiteboard and talk first at high-level and then drilling down into the details.</p>
<p>Now, a bunch of folks have been <a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/01/03/its-high-time-we-moved-to-url-based-identifiers/">talking</a> about <a href="http://epeus.blogspot.com/2008/01/urls-are-people-too.html">this</a> idea of moving to URL&#8217;s as identifiers in recent weeks (even <a href="http://kveton.com/blog/2008/01/03/urls-are-people-too-and-service-end-points/">me</a>).  The idea is simple; your OpenID is an unique end-point that can act to describe for sites where you get specific services from.  For example, if I prove that I&#8217;m scott.kveton.com then a website could feasibly query that URI and ask &#8220;hey scott.kveton.com, you just logged into my site, can I have your friends list?&#8221; or &#8220;where can I find your calendar?&#8221;</p>
<p>We did our best to try to keep the discussion simple first and then drive into the details of the existing technology.  Some basic service types we might want to describe included personal contact information, address book (aka social network or friends list), bookmark service, calendar, photo service or instant messaging.  Defining them opaquely we get &#8220;my photo service is provided by Flickr&#8221; or &#8220;I use Google for my calendar&#8221;.  That&#8217;s the easy part.</p>
<p>We had two problems to contend with after we&#8217;ve described the types of services we want to expose: privacy and ability to query in or out-of-band.  How much information do I want public?  How can I share it if I want it to be private for only a few people?  Since OpenID works within the browser (consider this &#8220;in-band&#8221;), what if I want a service (like my photo or calendar service) to update something of mine with my permission when I&#8217;m not in front of the computer?</p>
<p>When talking about privacy, it looks like we have the components we need already.  In the case of the public data, we can accomplish this with microformats or XRDS right at the OpenID URL.  My contact information in hCard, my friends in XFN, etc.  Using XRDS you could share where you get specific service types.  If you want to lock this up a bit, you can use Attribute Exchange.  It allows you to share only what you want to who you want.  Ideally you&#8217;d be using the same URI&#8217;s for both in this scenario.</p>
<p>To deal with the in/out-of-band data problem the idea was floated to leverage OpenID + AX for in-band and OAuth + AX for out-of-band.  If I&#8217;m logging into a site via OpenID with my browser, I could use Attribute Exchange (AX) to move my private (and public if I want) data.  If the web service wants to update something for me or my OpenID provider wants to update something on a service, it can use OAuth which ideally would be automatically setup when the user logs in for the first time to the service.</p>
<p>In the future, we could even consider having an XRDS entry to describe how to add or remove entries into my list of services I use.  Now you could have a web service ask you if you&#8217;d like to use them as your default photo service or calendar.  Very cool stuff.</p>
<p>Now, we have the pieces described for what we want to do.  The best part is we&#8217;ve been able to turn our OpenID end-point into the choke point for our public and private data.  I can see all kinds of applications for other types of information you might want to land there as well (can you say your lifestream?).  Looks for some folks (maybe those attending OpenIDDevCamp?) will implement these features in the near future.  Let&#8217;s get some code out there and start playin&#8217; with it!!  Yeah! :-)</p>
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